Limitless Roofing Show
We give you a seat at the table as we interview Owners, CEO's, and key executives in roofing companies. Our goal is to equip you with key insights gleaned from these conversations so you can achieve mastery in your roofing business.
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Limitless Roofing Show
Forging Success: Jack Cottrell's Journey from Roofer to Entrepreneur
When Jack Cottrell first donned a roofer's hat at the tender age of 16, little did he know that it would mark the beginning of an extraordinary entrepreneurial journey. From the rooftops to the boardroom, Jack's story is a testament to the power of determination and the often winding paths that lead to success. In this episode, Jack shares the pivotal moments that steered him from his initial aspirations of nursing to becoming a pioneering force in the roofing industry. Discover how Jack's strategic decision-making and foresight led him to embrace the roofing sector, a move that would set the stage for his future triumphs.
Perseverance and grit emerge as central themes as we explore the trials and tribulations faced by entrepreneurs. Drawing parallels with the likes of Ernest Shackleton's legendary endurance, we discuss how staying focused on immediate tasks can help overcome overwhelming challenges. Jack's insights into maintaining a balance between growth and efficiency in business highlight the need for a conservative yet opportunistic approach in an ever-changing market. With a strong financial foundation and strategic planning, Jack's roofing business has set ambitious targets while navigating the complexities of both insurance and retail work.
The episode delves into the personal challenges of business ownership, where self-awareness and humility play critical roles. Jack candidly shares his struggles with leadership and the importance of surrounding oneself with complementary team members. The discussion extends into the influence of personal values in business and the lasting impact of Gino Wickman's "Traction," offering listeners practical advice on integrating personal dreams with professional pursuits. Join us as we unpack Jack's belief in the power of perseverance and the significance of injecting one's heart into business, leaving you inspired to chase your own dreams with unwavering dedication.
all right, welcome to the limitless roofing show. My name is dylan mccabe and in every episode we talk with roofing owners and just talk through struggles, challenges, visions and dreams. Uh, to to really help you go to the next level, we give you a seat at the table so that you can listen in. We all have something to learn from one another. Iron sharpens iron, and that's the point of this show. And today we've got Jack Cottrell. He's actually the very first member to the Limitless Roofing GPO, which is really cool, and he's become a friend and we wanted him to have him on the show. So, jack, welcome to the show, man.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it, Dylan. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what I'd like to do is just kind of open up about your story and share about your story. How'd you get into roofing, what were you doing before that and what did it look like getting into it? Where are you? What's your company? Just kind of the 30,000 foot view.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm out of Denver now, but it didn't start out that way. I there was nothing before roofing, and then that's pretty much really accurate. I started roofing when I was 16 years old. So I had a friend, a family friend, that owned a roofing company and he started that company just to put himself through dental school. So he needed cheap labor and that's where I came in.
Speaker 2:So I installed roofs for, you know, from 16 to 21 years old, uh, and then, and then he set off to Denver to uh, explore an opportunity selling for another company. And a few months after he left Portland where I was, where I was, I called him up because I kind of saw the writing on the wall that his company in Portland wasn't going to survive without him. So I said I need to probably look at some other alternatives and I'm getting older and wanting to establish myself a little bit more and strike out on my own. I called him up and said, hey, can I, can I do what you're doing out there in Denver? And he's like, yep, open the door. And then so I came out and started selling roofs, uh, at the same company he was at. So that's what got me to Denver, um, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I didn't know. So you were an installer for how long?
Speaker 2:Like five years.
Speaker 1:No kidding, I did not know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the only thing I really had to my in my resume. I, when I came out to Denver, my my problem is that my whole life I've looked like I was really young, I mean a lot younger than I was. So if I was 16, I mean you're thinking you're talking to a 12-year-old. When I was 21, people thought I was 15, 16 years old and they're like why. It was really impressed upon me that people I was behind because people thought I was so young and I had nothing to offer. So the only feather in my cap at that point was I really knew roofing. I knew how to install, so I felt very comfortable up on a roof, felt very comfortable talking to people about how things worked. So I really relied on that heavily. With regards to my sales pitch, why do you want to use me? Well, I know more than the other salespeople that are twice my age.
Speaker 1:I I I'm I know more than the other salespeople that are twice my age. So and so you, and so, now that you're 60, you look like you're a 30.
Speaker 2:I just I just celebrated my 45th birthday, so you know the beard, the beard. When I finally was able to do like, grow some hair on my face, I did it and it took a while. So I'm afraid to shave it off because I don't know what what that would look like. But yeah, that that's. That was the first iteration of of of trying to grow up. You know what I mean. Like, let's grow some facial hair. Let's see if I can even do it.
Speaker 1:So you go from install, being an installer at 16 years old. You do that for several years and you think, man, I could do this, I could sell roofs and have my own business.
Speaker 2:So but you decided about my own business at the time.
Speaker 1:Oh, just selling roofs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wanted to sell Cause. At the same time I was I was not thinking I was always trying to get out of roofing. Uh, it was a means to an end. I was trying to go to, uh, get into nursing school. Actually. So I, from six, you know, from time I graduated high school, uh, up until I mean, shoot, years after I started selling, I was just taking a class at a time. I was going, I was trying to get myself into into, into, you know, um, to do an undergrad and get into nursing.
Speaker 2:So there, there did come a time when I said I have to make a choice because I'm not smart enough to do both. I'm not smart enough to continue my career in roofing and also do nursing school. So I had to make a make a choice. And and I'm a numbers person, so I I just crunched all the numbers and the long and short of it is, if I go to nursing school, I'm going to take on debt, which I hate, and then I'm going to end up out of school in a few years and make less money than I was making roofing.
Speaker 2:So, as much as I hated it, I was like you know what this is my life now I got to make a choice, and I started a family in the meantime as well, and so I had obligations. So roofing became my life, and so I dedicated everything to it and worked for several different companies in Denver and did all the jobs right Quality control, production, commercial production. I did, you know, I did all that stuff. And then fast forward. I was working for a company that I thought I was going to have a lot of opportunity in and uh, we you know, me and the owner butted heads and we ended up parting ways. And then it was at that point in January like in January, snow on the ground and everything. I was like I, I, I had to convince myself that I was good enough, smart enough, you know, ready to do my own thing, and so I just plugged away and started it and see where it went.
Speaker 1:And when was that?
Speaker 2:That was 2017.
Speaker 1:2017. So you decide I'm going to strike off on my own, I'm going to start my own business. Let's talk about that, because there's a lot of people out there that I know personally in my network of friends, family, et cetera that would like to do something entrepreneurial or have a business or a side business, but they just constantly think of the well, how's this going to work, How's this going to work, How's that going to work? What if this goes wrong? What if that goes wrong? But you're an entrepreneur, you're a business owner. I'm a business owner. Walk me through what's the thought process that you kind of went through as you wrestled with that, to where you decided I'm going to take the risk and do this on my own.
Speaker 2:It was a wrestle. I I deal with uh, self-confidence and always have again thinking I'm good enough and I'm able enough to do it. Um, I believed that I could outwork anybody and I still do I. So I always have that in my back pocket Like if, if everything goes to crap, like I can still. I can still work my way through any problem I've got.
Speaker 2:But I am usually more future, futuristic in my thinking. So I do tend to plan and dream. A lot of dreaming goes on in my head about where I want things to go. But I also have the benefit of thinking, of not thinking too far ahead in my actions. So I, I, I know that there's a lot of stuff in between my 30,000 foot view and my 5,000 foot view, or boots on the ground view, or whatever you want to call it. I'm able to at least look through both lenses and I don't let the what ifs really deter me from moving forward. So I tend to put my head down and look at the next task and I always think of it like the next bridge. There's always a bridge you got to cross. There's always a crevasse you got to get over right, there's always a barrier. There's always something you've got to get over. Right, there's always a barrier, there's always something you've got to get through and get over, and so I always imagine that in my mind, like these are just bridges I got to cross, and I don't. I know that I've got lots and lots of bridges to get to cross to get to where I want to go, but putting my head down and crossing the very next one made a lot of sense to me. So that's that was. It was my, it's the perseverance part, that that I'm strong in. That's one characteristic that I, that I do well, and so that's what I rely on pretty heavily.
Speaker 2:Early ages of my business, you know, like I w, I was quick story I sold my first job under my company name and I didn't have a contract, I didn't have anything. So I was, I was, I was on my way and writing up something in in, uh, in Excel, and I was just copying and pasting whatever I could from other contracts that I had gathered over the years, right, other companies that I'd worked for, and whatever, hoping I had no. Legally speaking, if you looked at that contract today you'd be like, yeah, there's holes all over the places, there's no way that this is enforceable. But I had a contract to present uh to my first client and then so clearly for me like I need to revise my contract and then then I need to, so that's the next thing I need to do. I need to make sure that I'm legal.
Speaker 2:Well, I did that first job without insurance. I know at some point I made the decision like, hey, we have enough money in the bank. Uh, I need to go get insurance. I just need to continue to add legit legitimacy to my business, um, without freaking out too much about all the things that I didn't have. So that was that's really my mentality for uh addressing problems and moving forward and getting over the hurdles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, so you're. I mean, you have this idea or this picture of what it could look like, but you know that you can stick it out and just keep going. I can't remember the quote. There's some quote that's like perseverance is the omnipotent virtue or whatever it's like. There's plenty of people that have genius level IQs but they've done nothing with it. And there's people who have been given opportunities that they've squandered, but it's just that grit and determination that wins out in the end.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't have any tattoos, but I always told myself, if I got one, it would be fortitude and invincible, which is the motto from from Ernest Shackleton, and that was his family motto and that was through endurance we conquer. And I'm like, that's me. I can do that Right. I'm not the smartest guy, I'm not the biggest guy, I'm not the, you know. I'm not the the, I don't know. You want to call it whatever thing that you think of when you think of a leader and a business owner and entrepreneur. I I'm not most of those things, but I can. I can persevere.
Speaker 1:Man, that's, that's interesting. You bring that up. I just finished that book on yeah the endurance. I did the audio version and 99% of the book is things going wrong. I mean it's just a beating. The book is for me. It was hard to listen to, like I would stop listening to it for a couple of weeks at a time because I would just get depressed. Right Like these guys are on the ocean everything's going wrong, people are freezing, you know. Then they land on an island and they think it's their salvation, only to find out the island is uninhabitable. They can't stay. There's watermarks where the tide goes above their heads. At the place they're camped out and then they have to go sailing again and it's just dramatic challenge after dramatic challenge. But the end of the book when they it's a good story, it ends well. And have you read the book?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so at the end, man, that final scene, when I won't say it for anybody who wants to read the book, but the final scene is so moving, I like I wept.
Speaker 1:I just wept at the end, when everything gets wrapped up in, like the last five minutes of the book, right, or 10 minutes of the book Right, or 10 minutes of the book, and then I retold it to Miller at lunch and I got all choked up and couldn't hardly tell him about it at lunch. I mean, you know me well enough by now, I'm a sensitive guy. But man, I mean when you look at that you think, yeah, I've gone through some really tough stuff in business, but I haven't been through that Like. I haven't been through that Right, like I haven't been on the ice for 18 months.
Speaker 2:Exactly so well, I mean, okay, so you, you mentioned a book. I don't remember you were doing a, you were a keynote speaker at some point, maybe a year ago or something like that, and you mentioned a book and it was into thin air and I and I, so I purchased that book and then I actually just finished it, I think two days ago, and that's the opposite right, like things looking like they were getting, they were going well, and then all of a sudden it didn't go well and it's not a happy ending, it's and that is. That is that is rough, right, you, you use that book, that story, as a, as a story to show you know, talk about leadership, but that's when everything went really, really wrong. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, it was, it was pretty good. So those are really on two opposite sides of, like the the outcome spectrum.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. Yeah, Into thin air is such a good one though, Cause I I love the way Krakauer writes that book and his perspective on things, and it is a study in leadership. The decisions you make, you know, especially on with that one when they started splitting the team up and the leader of the group going off on his own and Beck Weathers is waiting for him. The leader never comes back. I mean, it's just so many things went wrong. Their decision to leave oxygen tanks behind to reduce weight just terrible decisions. Yeah, that's a crazy book.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so let's heart wrenching as well. I mean, that was, that was a tragedy for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And he also wrote Into the Wild, which is a, which is an awesome book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with you. I love the way his his writing style is. I'll read that one probably next or really close to next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that one's really good. Um movie's good too, but so so you, you started selling roofs around 2017. Um, let's fast forward to today, Like what's your makeup? What's your target this year for revenue? What's your? How many people do you have working with you? Stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it ebbs and flows, for sure, but you know, it's like the stock market, right as far as our revenue goes. It goes up and down, but trajectory wise, it's all good stuff. We are entering a period now of retraction, if you want to use that word, where we're shrinking. The size of our team is shrinking a little bit because we're trimming some fat and making things more efficient. I'm very much in the mode of efficiency because I think we can do more with less, and then that will help propel us forward to take advantage of opportunities in the future. We're looking at purchasing a building, adding some team members, but we probably going to be looking at doing that in the spring.
Speaker 2:But as far as where we are, where we've been, like we did what did we do? Six and a half million last year and it was pretty consistent with the year before that, and then you know, before that that was a pretty big leap because we had in Denver, we had like three years of really no storms and our retail model. When I started in 2017, we had like three years of of really no storms and our retail model. When I started in 2017, we were, we were blessed with a storm, you know and I had enough contacts and had been in the business long enough to where we did. We did more than what we should have done. We took on more than we should have. The sales came easy, but the production was not in place and so we we struggled through that a lot, had a lot of a lot of things to overcome, but, um, the sales really haven't been the problem.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's always about executing and and maintaining your promises to your customers and doing right by them and giving them the service that they deserve, that they expect when they sign a contract with you. So we I'm I'm really pretty conservative. I'm not the mogul type necessarily. I'm the slow and steady growth because I think that's sustainable and I don't incur too much debt. I'm conservative on that front as well. So we go by the speed of cash. So we've experienced a little bit of a retraction in Denver, at least for my company, and I feel like the industry in this market as well, was a little bit low. So we're kind of dealing with that right now. But I think that our foundational we got some more money in the bank than we've ever had and we're ready to grow. But we're making some changes internally so that we feel like we can be more nimble and respond to the market quickly. So I don't know if that answers your question.
Speaker 1:No, that's good. Is your question? No, that's good. So so, for those listening in, what do you? What's your goal for growth over the next year or two? Is it, is it a hundred percent storm work? Is it retail as well? Are you looking to kind of maintain where you're at? What's your? What are you thinking for the next year or two?
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I, when I started the business, it was insurance, and I think that's where I was trying to go with that story is, we were insurance and so like 95% of our stuff was insurance and then we were dry and that really flip flop. So we were 90% retail during that time and then, when we got hit with another storm in 2023, like it inversed again, so we were doing 90% insurance. So we have the ability to do both. I think we're well set up to do either or, uh, we're not, we're not big enough, I think, to where we can rely on the retail. Uh, like completely, we can't say that like 50% of our stuff is going to come from re, from retail, because it's just, it just doesn't seem to work that way.
Speaker 2:I'd like to and we we do work on our branding and try to be omnipresent. You know we're working with doing some Facebook ads right now, which we haven't really done before. We're trying to, you know, sponsor local events, being more active with the chamber of commerce. You know, putting our sign on ballparks and stuff like that. So we're trying to like build the brand and make sure that we're we're present all the time. Um, and I think that that helps us to become more retail. But we, when we have insurance work it, it blows everything up. I mean it. It becomes very, very prominent part of our business which we can handle. We, we love doing insurance work as well, but, um, yeah. So I think I think moving forward, we are.
Speaker 2:I would like to be at 10 million in two years and I think that's, that's pretty achievable. We are working really hard internally on our, you know, sops and reevaluating all those and then building SOPs so that we can bring on the right people. We I've hired and we've talked about this you and I have privately, but, like I, I've hired out of desperation in the past. You know we've got all this work to do. Let's, let's get some people and fill, fill some seats.
Speaker 2:But you know the Jim Collins thing where you got to get the right people in the right seats. That's, that's the trick and that's something I haven't really mastered yet. But we are going to be more patient, we're going to spend it, we're going to have a process for hiring and bringing people into the company that are the right people, that buy into the vision and that way I think that, as far as my plan moving forward, that's going to be big picture. That's our way of of getting past the hurdle and not really a hurdle, but getting past our previous benchmarks. I think that 10 million is is very achievable in my market, even with the relatively small team that I've got.
Speaker 1:No, that's good. Yeah, a lot of guys think about how. Like how am I going to go from five or 6 million to 10 million in two years? And it's really not a. I mean the how you can work on that, but the real question is who? That's right. I know that book by Dan Sullivan.
Speaker 2:That's probably out of sight. It's right now that book by Dan Sullivan and, um yeah, what's?
Speaker 1:his face. Uh, anyway, who, not how. I mean, it's like you need the right who, and in fact we've been. We've been at Limitless we've been. Um, we hired a culture index coach and actually, since you're a forged member in our forged mastermind, you're going to get access to this. We haven't announced it to you guys yet, so there's that it's announced now. Awesome. But we hired him and he gives this assessment called Culture Index, and Culture Index assesses your personality, but it also assesses your tendencies and stuff like that, and then it assesses how you feel about the role you're in.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:To see, if there's to see if those two are um aligning with one another. And so they say they claim that it's 93% accurate on the first take and it's 97% accurate on the second, and it only takes about 10 minutes to take this assessment. And it only takes about 10 minutes to take this assessment. I did it like 15 years ago I was talking to an insurance broker about a job and they had me take it. And then I took it again about a year ago and my result was the exact same.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 1:But me and Robert and Miller all took it and this culture index coach walked us through and I mean, in 10 minutes he pegged us. I mean he was like all right, dylan, we're going to get to you in a minute. And then he's like now, robert, he's like you're what I call the philosopher. He's like you like to ask 10 questions, play devil's advocate, you have a futuristic mind, but you really like to get into the how to and the what. If you're you're, you're skeptical by nature. You like to hit the brakes and think through things. I mean, it was like he was in Robert's head. It was crazy.
Speaker 2:I actually just got off a call with Robert right With our Forbes meeting.
Speaker 1:I'm like then he did the same thing to Miller and then he got to me and nailed me and we're just like wow. But the cool thing about it is they claim that what you can do with Culture Index and this is for everybody listening to this what you can do with Culture Index is you have the person you're thinking of hiring, take that assessment and then you have the role clearly written and they coach you on how to write a job description and you know, before you hire them, whether they have the right tendencies or not for that role, which could save all of us a ton of time and stress that's a big filter like, if I could know ahead of time, it's highly likely that you're a great fit for this role, which means you'll probably really enjoy it and stay with me long term versus you're not the right.
Speaker 1:You're way out of the right seat, you know.
Speaker 2:Right. So anyway that's an awesome tool, for sure. And then you just got to fill in all the gaps, like are they ethical, are they presentable? You know what I mean? What's their communication style, like that type of stuff. But yeah, absolutely, that's, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:So let's shift and talk about like you're obviously doing well. I look at you and I think man Jack is successful. Of course, there's always a gap between where you are and where you could be. Yeah, it's just a part of being a business person. But you have made it to a place where you're successful. You're doing well, your family's secure, you see a path to grow, but you're definitely not in crisis mode. Are we going to make it? You, you're definitely not in crisis mode. Are we going to make it? You're not doing just a million or 2 million a year. You're doing well, right? So a lot of guys may see that and go man Jack's doing really well, but you've been doing this for a while. Let's talk about challenges. We can all identify with challenges and being a business owner, it's just like nonstop. I mean, you're dealing with new challenges every month. What's one of the biggest challenges you faced as a business owner? And let's get into that and how you dealt with that and what lessons you learned and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, it's very prominent to me. All of my own weaknesses and the stuff that I'm dealing with right now, currently in my business, is people. I really just want people to do their job. I bring you on to do a job, I want you to do your job, and if you can be a great leader and bring more problem solving to the table, then that's a bonus.
Speaker 2:So my weaknesses have been that I believe in people probably a little bit too much, and personally I'm a people pleaser, and so that that that is a problem that has raised its head many, many times, because I I tend to be the one that bends when it comes to negotiations and it and you know, and I, I want people to like me, and so I. It's one of those things again, very early on where I didn't, I had this thought in my head an entrepreneur, that's. That would be awesome, that would be great. I would love to do that. I see the benefit I want to. I want all the benefits from being an entrepreneur and owning my business Um, the financial aspect of it, the freedom of time, the unlimited ability to just to craft my vision of my lifestyle how I want it and be able to get all those things and be able to provide for my family. So it was very clear about the benefits from it.
Speaker 2:But what I keep on bumping up against is the fact, the fact that I um is is that I get taken advantage of more often than not. So that's, that's a personal problem. So I look at people like you, cause you, I think you are very much well, not very much, but like you're at least on the other end, where it's like um, see a problem, address a problem, like no skin off my nose, let's, let's. We need to make this change Right. You even offered to help me with uh letting a, letting a team member go at some point, and it's like man, that's I wish I had. That, you know, um, but I can't change me. I can work on, I can work on things and I do, but being aware of it, I think is is the first thing. And then, and then just chunking away at um, at growth, you know, because my, my growth is for my lifetime and I I recognize that um, some things come easily for me and other things don't, and so I just have to uh hedge against the things that I'm not good at and then surround myself with people that that are good at those things and and I need them as mentors and sounding boards and um advisors for, for me, Um and I, I think I'm doing a better job of that um, instead of being that one person that does everything. Uh, things like, um, what is that book? Rocket fuel? I read that one finished that one up a couple of weeks ago, where it was.
Speaker 2:You know, the big takeaway for me is like I'm by design, by people's, like nature, human nature is. You're not going to be good at everything, and that's okay. And if I'm, naturally, am the the visionary? Um, it's you know, cause they say right in there, they're like, if you think that you're the 5% or 3% of people that are good at both, then you're probably wrong. Right, you can't be a visionary and an integrator and be really, really good at both roles, and I tend to think, well, yeah, I'm good at that, I'm good at that, and I'm like trying to, I'm this guy, right, I'm. I'm this entrepreneur, I'm, I'm really not. I need to have some supplemental help in my business, and so being aware of that is probably my biggest problem that I've had, and it manifests in lots of different ways, but that's big picture. That's my biggest problem.
Speaker 1:You know, but that takes a lot of humility to say that, because a lot of guys, if I say what's been your biggest challenge, they're going to say, oh well, it was this one year where this job went south and it cost us and we almost lost our business, or this happened or that happened, or I lost my biggest sales guy and, you know, kissed two million in revenue. Goodbye that year, and he set up shop right down the street. But you've got the humility and self-awareness to say you know, I'm, the biggest challenge to my progress is me, and I think there's a lot of guys that can identify that with that, because that is the leadership challenge, Right? I mean it's like Maxwell, like John Maxwell talks about in his book on leadership, the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership, the law of the lid. Like you have a limited amount of experience and strengths and gifts, and whatever you want to call it, it's limited, and that your leadership is never going to outpace that. So I think it's like you said.
Speaker 1:The key, though, is surrounding yourself with other guys learning, getting, coaching, getting you know, being a student basically a business and of and of yourself. There's a really good um verse in the Bible where Paul. Paul is talking to Timothy, his who, he's mentoring, and he says examine yourself and your doctrine, like don't just try to be a good teacher of of doctrine, or of the word, like examine yourself to be a student of yourself, be a learner and, uh, try to improve. I mean we're going back to that gap thing, like there's always a gap between who we are as leaders and who we could be, and I think that's been one of the you know, for me personally, that's been one of the biggest challenges in my life is the slowness of my growth.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right Cause you make the same mistakes again and again and for the 1100 hundredth time. It's like man, what with me you mentioned okay, I can, he went on the culture index thing when he got to me. He's like this guy is what I call the Texas tornado. He's like he's a dealmaker, he's a driver, he pushes to make things happen. He's going to come at you and say, hey, let's do this, this is critical. Hey, let's think about that too, and he's just going to keep going or whatever.
Speaker 1:Well, the dark side to that is I lack patience, I lack tact. I don't. You know, I can on the dark side. If I'm given into too much selfishness or impatience or fear, it can come across as really pushy. So I know that about myself. So what do I do? I have to apologize for it. I mean I've called my fellow business partners and been like man, I'm sorry, I was too intense in that meeting. Or our girls are getting ready for bedtime and it's like, hey, I'm sorry, daddy, took the toothbrushing a little too seriously. Like will you please forgive me for that. It's not a big deal. And it's just like. How many times am I going to have to confess that and apologize for that?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I guess that's what keeps you humble.
Speaker 2:It's like, hey, you know, you're you're, you're, we're all a mixture of righteousness and unrighteousness or weaknesses. Yeah, I mean, what do they say? How you do some things is how you do all things. So, uh, when you're reflecting on that, you don't have to look through the lens of what do I do in my business. But, like you mentioned, I, you, you had this crossover. I, I realized this and see this in my personal life as well. So, as far as being self-aware, like there's signs, like they're out there. So if you're, if you're out there thinking about, like how do I evaluate myself? Yep, like how you do some things is how you is how you do everything.
Speaker 2:So, um, you know, problems that you're having in your personal life tend to permeate into your business as well. So, if you've got weaknesses, like it's good to be aware it's, it's good to ask people, it's good because we also look at ourselves differently and personally. For you, I, what's going through my head when I'm talking to you about it is like, yeah, you, you're pretty harsh on yourself, cause I know you, I think fairly well and I and I I don't I don't see that at least you're very good at tempering any sort of impatience or frustration. You do a good job about that, so you've clearly worked on, worked on that on a personal level, so I applaud you for that. But it is good to kind of get other people's perspective too. If you're really interested in knowing how you come across and how you are perceived, like ask people, talk to them, like find your confidants and and talk to them about it, because if you, if you really want to start addressing your concerns, um then yeah, that's the way I would go about doing it man.
Speaker 1:So here's a challenge for anybody listening or watching this clip. Go to the leaders on your team and say, hey, I'd like some feedback. Yeah, what have I done? Well, what's one thing I could improve on, to do even better, from a character standpoint, not a skill standpoint. What's something I could do better, whether it's being more approachable, being a better communicator, being more helpful, more empathetic, whatever it might be. We can all work on skills, but the hardest thing to develop is character. So, man, that's a challenge. I just challenge everybody listening. And the cool thing is is just last week, robert Posey, our chief revenue officer, called me. He told me he wanted to talk about it and he called me. He said I just want to call to get, I want feedback, I want feedback on me, how am I doing in this role? And I also want to give you some feedback. And he raised an issue that he kind of caused a little rub and it was great man, it's like hey, we're both a work in progress, thank you for being, thank you for loving me enough to tell me.
Speaker 1:And there's a really good book we're mentioning a lot of books on this, this in this conversation. There's a really good book called humility. I forget the name of the author. It's a small little book but he shares this story in the opening and he shares stories about all the dumb things Like I have no right to be prideful. Here's all the stupid things I do. Like I heard a funny sound from my car and I went and looked out. You know, looked at the hood Like I knew any. I don't. He's like I don't even know how to name a single part of my car. If you open the hood and anyways, he talks about if you're, he shares a story of if you're at a restaurant with a beautiful woman maybe it's your wife or maybe you're single and it's a woman you're dating and you're on this really expensive date.
Speaker 1:If I walk by and I see you at the table with this woman and you've just got this like huge smear of mustard or something sauce on your face, got this like huge smear of mustard or something sauce on your face. If I love you, I'm going to tell you like I'm going to be like Jack hey, man, good to see you, by the way, you got this huge smear of sauce on your face. If I love you, I'm going to tell you it's not me criticizing you. It's not me trying to bring you down or discourage you, but it takes humility to receive that and it also takes humility to share that. And there's another quote by CS Lewis that says humility is not thinking less of oneself. It's thinking of oneself less right, like when you're around a real humble person. They really don't talk about themselves a lot, they're just real interested in you and they're easy to talk with. It's not somebody who's like, oh I suck, I'm the biggest loser in the world. Like that's not humility.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's just self.
Speaker 2:Self-deprecation. It's not the same thing. Yeah, yeah, I have a friend that's just extremely good at that. Um, we were kind of developing a friendship and and, uh, my wife and invited him and his wife to go out on a double date and we, we left that double date and going like we don't know anything about these people and it's like, why is that?
Speaker 2:But I feel really good, you know, I feel really like happy, I wanted to be around them. It's like, why is that? Oh, yeah, it's because all they did was care about me, right? They, they let me talk, you know, they let me share. They asked questions and they listened and it was, it was the biggest lesson, because he embodies that like that characteristic of of being interested in somebody else and the way that that made me feel I was like that is the biggest lesson ever. I need to do that and I actually think about him consciously sometimes when I'm, when I'm talking to people, it's like ask more questions, look them in the eyes, be more interested in them, and they're going to like you because of the way that makes them feel. Yeah, people are most comfortable talking about themselves.
Speaker 1:So it was a big lesson. I think it's valuable. No, that's good stuff. Yeah, so we're rounding the corner on our time. I'd like to ask you just a few quick questions. Just give your best answer. We'll keep it really short. One is what's one great resource you've had in your business, whether it's a tech platform or whatever that's really helped you go to the next level?
Speaker 2:I mean CRM is is the biggest thing keeping organized. Yeah, we're using job Nimbus right now and it's been invaluable. And they've grown as a company as well. We've done some beta testing with them and we've given input on development and that's. That's been invaluable.
Speaker 1:So anybody not using a CRM that might do that first thing yeah, and you're talking to I know you're talking to one of our partners, one for the books, and we are builds out custom CRMs and I am.
Speaker 2:I can't tell you how excited I am about that. I presented it to the team yesterday in our leadership meeting and the man just the ability to get the numbers you talk about know your numbers right. We've heard tons of talks about that and read books about that. There's no other way than I mean. There might be other ways, but there's nobody doing what this new platform is able to do, and I can't wait to implement it. So, as much as we love JobNimbus and we may do them parallel for a little while to make sure that all the functionality transfers but, man, this new platform is just insane with regards to knowing your numbers.
Speaker 1:That's so good.
Speaker 2:Do something with that.
Speaker 1:What's if you could do it all over again? What's one thing you would do different?
Speaker 2:Uh, I would. I would probably get boy. You said one thing I'd probably get a mentor earlier on. I think it's worth the investment. I really do. I mean, I yeah that that would be the thing.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Second thing would be um, get the right people like, start working on and again, really in line with what we're talking about is, know your own weaknesses and then build your team around that right you need. You need other people around you to to fill in all the gaps.
Speaker 1:That's so good man. What's one book that's been pivotal for you in business.
Speaker 2:Anything EOS.
Speaker 1:Like traction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, traction probably would be man. It's packed full of actionable items and very practical way of doing it. As a matter of fact, it's so practical that you think, like, why isn't everybody doing this? And so traction is very actionable, very digestible and very implementable. So I would I yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Yep Traction is great. And then last question is what's one lasting piece of advice you want to give to anybody listening to this? What's one big thing that you would want them to take away from our conversation?
Speaker 2:I'm a big believer in people and I I believe also that people are more than just their business.
Speaker 2:You know, um, I, I want to tell people, I guess, that I know how hard it is to do what you're doing right and that you're, without getting too fluffy, like you, can achieve what you set out to do.
Speaker 2:There's a path, there's a way, and what's beautiful about business is that individuals have the ability to inject themselves into their business that they're building, which means that my offering in my market is different than somebody else in there, and even in my market, and their, their customer may be a different customer, appreciate what they do better than what I do. But what's really beautiful is that it is your business can be an extension of you and, and there's room, right, there's room for all this creativity and um and the way that we do things. So you, you know, I, I, I believe in in putting your whole heart into it and getting it done. And if you persevere which is again the thing I always, always rely on is, I can persevere, I can work really hard, I can, I can do the next right thing. If you have that mentality, then you can achieve whatever dream that you have.
Speaker 1:So good man. You got to believe it. You got to believe in the opportunity. That's great. Well, jack Cottrell, with Jack the roofer man, it's been great talking to you. Thanks for being on the show.
Speaker 2:You bet, dylan, thank you.